Please Delete This Thread.

883 Views 27 Replies 5 Participants Last post by cmcc1989, Jun 7, 2008

hookie

Discussion Starter · Jun 4, 2008

The real reason for the look of the clutch came to me last night. Has nothing to do with dust. I simple will not go into the cause in public. Will edit all my post to stop this thread. Thanks for everyone's wellness to help.

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

MNRZR LE

· #2 · Jun 4, 2008

Primary Clutch wear

Putting a filter on the inlet of the clutch air will be a problem. If it is hot out, the air flow through a filter is not sufficiant to keep them cool. You may have blown belt problems. We are working on this problem too. At this time a spin top may be the best you can do.
Powermaxx

hookie

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jun 4, 2008

delete

G

· #4 · Jun 4, 2008

dust

Marks on the clutch face is not uncommon on cvt's....It probably done that in the 1st 100 miles or so....
As for the dust issue, the Pilots have a cvt that is not enclosed from the elements...The only thing it has is a gaurd to keep the belt off of you when it breaks......They have been ridden in severe dusty, sandy, rocky, and muddy conditions for years....I am not saying it won't wear it out a little faster, but clutch life, even exposed, is quite long....At the speed which the clutch turns, centrifigual force will pretty much keep anything from sticking too it....I personally just replaced the belt which has been on it for 3 years, and the clutch faces are still in good shape....
Hoodlum

G

· #5 · Jun 4, 2008

I second Hoodlum's "don't worry about it" post. My Ridge Runner had the same Polaris CVT as a Rzr and for most its life it didn't have the cover on. Through dust, sand, mud & water. The pulley faces are dull but not scored and the original belt lasted 2 years. My opinion: The gain in cooler operation more than offsets the extra wear.

hookie

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jun 5, 2008

Delete

G

· #7 · Jun 5, 2008

Grooves

Sandblaster said:
The grove is the issue, it keeps the belt from dropping and causes hard shifting. Dealer took one look and said it was dust issue. They see groves like that after thousands of miles, not 500.

How deep are they? Can you put a straight edge against them so we can see how much the face has been eaten away? It doesn't look that bad in the pic....
Most of the time when clutch faces get worn, you feel it more in upshift than downshift....Maybe the grooves are not the cause of the hard shifting,but the result of another problem that could be causing the hard shifting....
Hoodlum

G

· #8 · Jun 5, 2008

Sandblaster said:
The grove is the issue, it keeps the belt from dropping and causes hard shifting. Dealer took one look and said it was dust issue. They see groves like that after thousands of miles, not 500.

That's not a dust issue... Coming from the snowmobile world, it is not uncommon to see grooves in the Primary Clutch. Alot of that would be a combination heat (Belt slipping due to not enough squeeze on the belt) and Polaris may be using a hard compound belt. That's not a sand or dust issue. You can tell by looking at the black ring at the top of the Primary. This means your belt is slipping on top end. More weight at the clutch may help that scenario. Your dealer is guessing and obviously has not tuned or played with alot of CVT's.

crusherman

· #9 · Jun 5, 2008

i agree with this. i just put a heelclicker on my rzr and ended up with the wgts. being about 10 grams heavier than the stock ones......stroker

That's not a dust issue... Coming from the snowmobile world, it is not uncommon to see grooves in the Primary Clutch. Alot of that would be a combination heat (Belt slipping due to not enough squeeze on the belt) and Polaris may be using a hard compound belt. That's not a sand or dust issue. You can tell by looking at the black ring at the top of the Primary. This means your belt is slipping on top end. More weight at the clutch may help that scenario. Your dealer is guessing and obviously has not tuned or played with alot of CVT's.[/quote]

hookie

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jun 5, 2008

Delete

G

· #11 · Jun 5, 2008

When you mentioned "hard shifting" I thought you were talking about CVT shifting. Now I see you mean FNR gear shifting. For the clutch to cause hard shifting I would assume it would have to be spinning the secondary at idle. I don't see how wear on the pulley faces can cause this. If pulley & belt material is abraded away it should make the belt even looser. Were you able to inspect the CVT spinning before taking it in for service? Was the secondary spinning at idle--and at the correct idle of ~1150 rpm?

G

· #12 · Jun 5, 2008

Sandblaster said:
Very interesting guys. Remember only 500 miles on this clutch before hard shifting issue started. If it is not caused by dust then Polaris sure missed the setup and if that is the case why is not everyone having this issue at 500 miles? Seems Powermaxx relates this to dust as well.

We are working on this problem too.

Click to expand...

As my dealer stated, those grooves are not unusual but after thousands of miles of normal use, not 500. Again the shifting issue started on the same extremely dirty ride, the dirtiest I have every been on, that was the final straw for engine failure. I know for sure when the hard sifting started and it has not gone away with idle adjustment and other normal checks. Something happened on that ride to cause the hard shifting. The groove is the result and cause. I removed a couple of hands full of larger particles that the pre-filter stopped from the air filter box. The clutch was not protected and had to have lots and lots of dust ingestion. Must have been like sand blasting. The belt is softer then the metal so what did the abrasive dust do to the belt? Cause and effect. There is just not doubt in my mind of cause and effect on this one. It has taken time for me to fully understand what happened.

When it comes to dust, this is extremely fine, very abrasive pumice dust from volcanic activity that is layered over Eastern Oregon.

My Yamaha Apex snowmobile had grooves on the Primary @300miles and they are still there. Yamaha uses a very hard compound belt. But they last for ever. I would think Polaris is using something similar. Just for a quick test. Pull your clutch covers and go do a quick blast down a clean road. Stop and touch the clutches and tell me how hot they are. If you can't touch them, then the clutching is poor in it and that is half the problem.

hookie

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jun 5, 2008

Delete

G

· #14 · Jun 5, 2008

Make sure you do a good run when you try and varry the throttle and the WFO spints and let us know what you think. If the groove is actually affecting your idle, then you may need to change the clutch face. Pull, the belt off and see what it idles at.

G

· #15 · Jun 5, 2008

I don't think your idle is causing the problem. I believe the clutch shouldn't engage until 1500, or above. My rig idled at 1320, and I had no issues. I spent a heck of a lot of time getting the idle down to 1200, and although it runs fine, it wasn't worth the effort to adjust it.
I would suspect some kind of clutching issue. Does it lurch or anything like that when it does go in gear?

G

· #16 · Jun 5, 2008

groove

Sandblaster said:
it would have to be spinning the secondary at idle

Click to expand...

That is the problem. Sometimes it shifts perfect then it takes spells of grinding the gears bad. Has gotten so bad have had to kill the engine to get Reverse without grinding. Have not see the 1150 as the correct idle speed. What I have found is between 900 and 1300. The idle is high 1100-cold and low 1200 - hot. The groove is keeping the belt from dropping all the way down at idle I believe. I would like to know more about the 1150 as the correct idle speed. Where did you find that figure? If that is what is factory, then I will adjust accordingly.

agentzoey, can't do as the clutch is at the dealers. Nice test. Think I will try that when I get the new clutch back. Would be good to rule this out or if it is an issue, correct it.

Lots to learn on these clutches. Thanks for the comments and education.

The groove will not keep the belt from dropping down....If your primary is spreading apart like it should,the belt will go to the bottom....I would be looking for something in the clutch that is binding or causing some friction that is causing the clutch to catch....Can't remember who, but someone had a problem with the clutch binding a while back....
Hoodlum

G

· #17 · Jun 6, 2008

Re: groove

Hoodlum said:
The groove will not keep the belt from dropping down....If your primary is spreading apart like it should,the belt will go to the bottom....I would be looking for something in the clutch that is binding or causing some friction that is causing the clutch to catch....Can't remember who, but someone had a problem with the clutch binding a while back....
Hoodlum

I think it may have been in one of the threads about removing the limiter spacer. Someone found a step on the shaft that made the pulley catch--but I can't recall if it was at idle or max speed.

Primary could be binding due to dirt, damage to the shaft, a problem with the flyweights or misalignment with the secondary. If the alignment is bad enough it would cause the belt to rub and keep the secondary moving even at idle. The dealer should be able to throw the clutch alignment tool on the pulley faces and tell instantly if that's a problem. Are you still running the stock belt? IIRC a wider HP belt requires realignment.

G

· #18 · Jun 6, 2008

You appear to have more of an issue with sand than with dust.

Baditude

· #19 · Jun 6, 2008

:shock: What is this.....a dang soap opera?? Why the secrets?

"Like sands through the Primary.....so are the days of Sandblaster"

hookie

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jun 6, 2008

Let's say a monkey got in the soap barrel. Somethings are better handled in private.

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

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